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Forum:2018-12-14 (Friday)
Discussion for comic for . Veni, vidi, wiki (I came, I saw, I edited). ---- Well, I started to say "that proves it's the current Albia" but I guess it could in principle be the old Albia until the current one pushes her aside in the last panel. But I still think the most parsimonious explanation is that it's current Albia taking on the appearance of old Albia. ➤ And presumably it's the secret of immortality that she wants not to share, right? ➤ So, was this Lozz an immortal Queen? Do the other Queens willingly talk with good Queens and evil Queens impartially? Along those lines it might be worth noting that apparenly opposing Lozz wasn't "unthinkable." ➤ In panel 6 that other queen looks as if she has a carrot for a nose. :-) Bkharvey (talk) 05:16, December 14, 2018 (UTC) P.S. "The secret ways of knowing people's hearts": Albia was presumably already a (first level) Spark. Does this like mean that she's our second example of a mad social scientist? ➤ And, this tells us that Albia is a relatively young Queen, and that the real origin story of the Mirrors is too early to be known to her (unless perhaps another Queen told it to her). Bkharvey (talk) 05:21, December 14, 2018 (UTC) P.P.S. Is that armor she's wearing in the last panel? What's that about? Bkharvey (talk) 07:42, December 14, 2018 (UTC) My belief was, and still is, that the entity in the well is just a relatively-good copy of Albia, pretending to be her, in order to maintain the illusion that Albia is a real god. She could be like the copy of Klaus in Gil's head? I think it would be really cool if it's actually Albia, and I have to admit that there is evidence that the Queens knew how to communicate their thoughts to a distant place (e.g. the connection between Zeetha and her headband/amulet/thing). But to me, this encounter suggests that they are talking to a "slower" copy of Albia, tied to her memories, and not the woman/God-Queen herself. But I could be wrong! Somewhat separately, I also think that this is evidence that Albia was originally a psychology-oriented spark, specializing in body-language, and that she was able to detect some kind of mind-control used by Lozz, even back then. And it implies that Lozz both benefited from contact with the God-Queens, and yet was not accepted by them, while Albia was. This is definitely a complicated page! Quantheory (talk) 07:47, December 14, 2018 (UTC) : Also, if Albia is a psychology-oriented spark, that would explain her unusual perception of the minds of people she's just met. Quantheory (talk) 07:49, December 14, 2018 (UTC) :: "Complicated page" ... not even counting the fact that Gil and Trelawney are still holding hands in the last panel. :-) Bkharvey (talk) 07:51, December 14, 2018 (UTC) ::: Fair! Quantheory (talk) 08:02, December 14, 2018 (UTC) :I wonder if it's a coincidence that we have a Queen Lozz, who mind controls animals, and a Lucrezia, who mind controls people. PhoenixTalion (talk) 17:12, December 14, 2018 (UTC) : I just noticed the obvious alternative, namely that Lozz was a spark who basically "camped" in front of her local mirror. When the comic mentioned "servants" in quotation marks, I automatically thought of mind control. But now I think that what it really means is that Lozz sat in front of the mirror and pretended that the faces behind her were on her side, even when they were obviously displeased with her. That also suggests that Albia wasn't necessarily very good with body language, since the Queens visible in the mirror wouldn't necessarily have tried to hide their irritation. : Nonetheless, Lozz is described as having come out of the mirror in this story, so it's possible that she came to Britain(/Doggerland) as an exile, rather than just being a random spark who discovered the Mirror.Quantheory (talk) 08:02, December 14, 2018 (UTC) :: I think the quotation marks around "servants" means, just as Albia says, that they weren't Lozz's servants at all. Also, the story doesn't quite say that Lozz came out of the Mirror. It says "it was said" she did. I figure this for a story spread by Lozz herself. The only slim evidence for her not being a local Spark is that she's female, which makes the alternative at least possible. But I think the interesting thing to ask about her is, why is she evil to the commoners? Not that Sparks are never evil, but usually their battles are with other Sparks; when commoners suffer, it's just as collateral damage. An evil Spark would have to be pretty desperate to bully the commoners. We know there was at least one other Spark in the neighborhood, namely Albia. But Albia didn't start fighting Lozz until the latter was already being evil. Oh, as for Albia herself, "I had been trained in the secret ways..." doesn't sound like the Spark; it's more like Zeetha's warrior training. But it seems clear that she at least thought it her special study. Bkharvey (talk) 09:14, December 14, 2018 (UTC) ::: Hell, who even says she's necessarily a Spark? She's a "witch", sure, but that only means the locals don't know how she does what she does. Her appearance could easily be that of a construct, and maybe all we've got here is another Ferretina. Either way, I also don't think we need to reach for a reason for her dicking with the regular humans. For most Sparks, feuding with other Sparks is part of the process, not the goal. What they want is to exercise their will on the world in pursuit of their personal vision. Subordinating the local populace as labor or raw materials is usually in service to that goal. Other Sparks trying to do the same thing is a threat to both their ambition and their ego, and Must Be Stopped. It's not that they made an army of lobster-men specifically to fight the next Spark over, it's that that Spark STANDS IN THE WAY OF THEIR GLORIOUS CRUSTACEAN PARADISE. Also, the Gilded Duke hunted peasants for sport, so "just because she's an asshole" is a perfectly plausible take. PhoenixTalion (talk) 17:12, December 14, 2018 (UTC) Just as a random note, this is very frustrating to anyone trying to figure out what's going on with the mirrors. If the God-Queens originally had nothing to do with them, that would be one thing. But now it seems like they may or may not have designed the mirrors in the first place, and either way Albia simply found the God-Queens after they already existed! Tricky stuff. Quantheory (talk) 08:17, December 14, 2018 (UTC) : There's no evidence that Queens travelled to foreign lands the hard way in order to install a new Mirror. So it seems to me that someone other than the Queens, someone who had a different way to teleport, must have created them, or at least transported them. But yes, that's why I said Albia is a young God-Queen. I hope she's going to be willing to answer more questions, such as "who made the Mirrors?" But I doubt it's going to be that easy for us. Bkharvey (talk) 09:14, December 14, 2018 (UTC) :: I think it's interesting to note that as we see more of the Mirrors, it seems like they were used as "windows" far more often than anyone actually passed through them (which tracks with everyone calling them Mirrors, and not Doors). After all, the disgruntled queen behind the throne never actually stepped through and swatted Lozz for her insolence. Maybe there's a reason for that. PhoenixTalion (talk) 17:12, December 14, 2018 (UTC) ::: Sure, the reason is that on their home turf they're nearly invulnerable, whereas when visiting, they're in danger! Bkharvey (talk) 08:30, December 15, 2018 (UTC) The Albia we see is only what would be in Sci-Fi terms called an AI-construct. It is a personality model that will do the job of searching, filtering and presenting of the Queen's memories in a manner that will make sense to the supplicant. In the last frame, Albia assumes direct control, having been alerted by whatever means to her simple avatar's outspokenness. It's based on her, and will act upon the personality and memories of the Albia that is pulled from the well. And the Albia of the time did talk too much. --Malakit (talk) 23:06, December 14, 2018 (UTC) : I was seeing the last frame as a more recent memory taking charge, instead of the living Aliba. Generalbusybody (talk) 13:50, December 15, 2018 (UTC) :: I agree, I don't think it is the living Albia. Calling the constructs "memories" is somewhat of a misstatement as they can act and interact. Argadi (talk) 16:16, December 15, 2018 (UTC)